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| Topic Started: Aug 26 2009, 03:18 AM (514 Views) | |
| Post #1 Aug 26 2009, 03:18 AM | Joe E. Holman |
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According to the Bible, God made the stars on the fourth day of creation. But even more remarkable is the fact that He is creating them still, though the latter miracle is considered not worth mentioning by any of the Bible’s authors. Consider this excellent post by Ed Babinski on the issue of how young earth creationists view the issues of star birth and the fact that they can't come to terms with the facts of the natural world... http://debunkingchristianity.blogspot.com/2008/09/creationists-admit-difficulties.html http://www.sciencecentric.com/news/article.php?q=09081303-space-telescopes-find-trigger-happy-star-formation |
 
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| Post #2 Aug 26 2009, 01:33 PM | Huxley |
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I really cannot understand why anyone either quotes the wanker Ken Ham, let alone engages him in matters scientific. He has no conception of the real world. Why does anyone continue to engage this mediaeval chancer ? Still, it is monumental of him to admit he doesn't have all the answers. He has stated frequently, in public, that all the answers lie in Genesis. So he is admitting it is wrong under certain conditions. That's a start I suppose. |
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| Post #3 Aug 28 2009, 04:49 AM | Prometheus |
I somehow find Hovind more entertaining... 
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Over the centuries, mankind has tried many ways of combating the forces of evil... prayer, fasting, good works and so on. Up until Doom, no one seemed to have thought about the double-barrel shotgun. Eat leaden death, demon... - Terry Pratchett | |
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| Post #4 Aug 28 2009, 05:01 AM | Huxley |
I'll bet his cell mates think that too. 
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| Post #5 Jan 11 2010, 03:51 AM | magicshoemonkey |
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Speaking of creationists, one of best YouTubers just posted this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBHEsEshhLs Pretty much brilliant, like everything he does. |
 
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| Post #6 Jan 11 2010, 08:05 PM | Huxley |
| Superb; it would be really funny of there weren't some sackless fuckers that believed this Genesis nonsense. I have never yet, notr do expect to find any, one person who can support a young earth theory of genesis, without recourse to a complete ignorance of evolution. |
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| Post #7 Jan 11 2010, 10:06 PM | magicshoemonkey |
Yeah, and, just as the video shows, the problem isn't just that they don't understand. It's that they refuse to do so. I've had discussions with some of my closest friends, who are often very intelligent otherwise, imo, who will consistently do exactly what the character in the video did. I mean, the reason I never accepted evolution as a Christian was not because I acted that way; I literally was so sheltered I never heard anyone or anything defend the theory of evolution, evinced by the fact that I immediately accepted evolution was a fact as soon as a read some real information on it. I had been given and had available nothing but creationist material up until then; for example, when I had a class when I had to debate the existence of God in I tried to find books at the library that defended atheism. Our school library didn't have a single one. This was before The God Delusion, though, so maybe they do now. Nope. I just searched their library catalog. They do have some of the new books on evolution, though most are only accessible because they're ebooks on netlibrary. |
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| Post #8 Jan 15 2010, 10:20 AM | Huxley |
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One of the best ways to get a Christian to accept natural selection is to advise them that it does not impinge on their delusion. Natural selection has nothing to say about abiogenisis; all it gives is a historic description on the nature of changing life on this Earth. (Unless of course they insist all life is immutable and unchanged - in which case they need to explain why 99% of life that ever lived is now extinct? ) Once they understand that, in principle, they can be shown that many 'good' Christians accept evolution as true,, so how could they be wrong and they dont seem damned for it. I begin to think this is a case, as you indicated Monkey, of being shielded from truth and not one of wilful ignorance. It becomes the latter of course when the religious delve into evolution, get it wrong and try to assail you with questions that are wrong from the get go. But perhaps I am becoming a little more accepting in my older age. I dont think ignorance is necessarily the individuals fault and try to make adjustments for that. I suggest the creationists are becoming more and more vehement in their claims, building 'museums' and crashingly boring the asses of people on the internet because they are in the last thoes of fundamentalism, due as much to the internet as anything. Such people may have been sheltered fro truth, even shunned knowledge but they cannot hide on the internet. Evidence is overwhelming and wherever they look they are contradicted. Some of them might not be deluded enough to actually ponder: Why is it only a fraction of people believe as I do, seem to believe purely on a regional basis and how do other people of my faith not believe the same things? Personally, I have always hated the idea of discussing evolution within a religious context. By that I mean trying to explain evolution as some counter to religious thought. It has nothing to do with religion. Evolution is true, whether you are a secularist, Buddhist or Catholic(the latter have been told they are to accept it as true). No one, I repeat no one rational disputes evolution. it happens as a historic and biological fact. Darwin only described the mechanism. Even the ancient Greeks pondered that something was going on; they knew there were animals that were no longer around (an Elephants skull witha central nasal hole is said to be the blueprint for the Cyclops) and wondered why. it is nothing new. Darwin didnt invent it nor did he invent Eugenics or anything the Nazis claimed. Perhaps it is all too much for deluded people to digest. But if the likes of ex christians on here can accept evolution as true then perhaps there is hope for human knowledge yet. |
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| Post #9 Jan 15 2010, 08:11 PM | magicshoemonkey |
Some insist that life is immutable, some say that it's only mutable within a "species," but they don't know what that means (and that in modern biology it's meaningless). The Christian I am usually thinking of, as far as I know, understands the abiogenesis distinction and just accepts the goofy arguments of IDers.
In the case of this same Christian, he just says that those Christians are mistaken. I posed that issue to him. Actually, I've given up talking to this guy about it for a reason I'll mention below.
With the guy I'm thinking of, he admits to having not seriously read any of the biology. I actually confronted him on it, and he says that he has read some books by Stephen Meyer (I assume it was about how vampires disprove evolution, so everyone should be abstinent) and that dude with the beard...whatshisname.... Anyway, he says that that's all he's read, minus reading a bunch of Christian blogs and Uncommon Descent (the non-Christian Christian blog for IDers). I gave him some recommendations, and he didn't seem interested. I really just said, "Fuck it, then" at that point. He's a nice guy and all, one of my best friends, but he's just unwilling to even consider the issue reasonably. But I think his actions do confirm your hypothesis, at least in his case.
This is probably so. And I am somewhat tolerant of people's ignorance, as well, I just get frustrated discussing it with them. Which is why I've pretty much given up doing so. After I tried to talk sense into a "birther" who said Obama was born in Kenya, then showed her his birth certificate and noted all the important info, and she still rejected it, I just said, "Nevermind, debate with morons is pointless." |
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