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| Religion, the Bible, Gods & All; Discussion of the divine or lack thereof | |
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| Topic Started: Feb 25 2009, 03:29 AM (2,093 Views) | |
| Post #1 Feb 25 2009, 03:29 AM | Perry |
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Just as well none of 'em came from Arkansas, right? Oh, hang on, they couldn't, could they? Atheists are discriminated against in Arkansas, aren't they? BTW - if it's pronounced R-CAN-SAW does that mean Kansas is said CAN-SAW? |
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| Post #2 Feb 28 2009, 05:48 AM | Noel Cookman |
Careful Perry - my only grandchild (the most beautiful little girl in the whole world) lives in Arkansas. 
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| Post #3 Mar 2 2009, 04:31 AM | Perry |
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ER, ahem, the most beeeuuuutiful grand daughter on the planet lives not so far from me and I live in NZ, OK?  That's her on an exchange visit to San Diego. |
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| Post #4 Mar 2 2009, 08:12 AM | Noel Cookman |
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She is beautiful and I can see how she is the "apple of your eye" to borrow a Biblical phrase. I'm trying to figure out how to post a picture of my granddaughter too. Oh well . . . so much for the unsavvy. |
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| Post #5 Mar 4 2009, 02:23 AM | Perry |
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T'will be good to compare the people we're extolling. Most all grand daughters are beautiful in the eyes of their grandparents, are they not? |
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| Post #6 Mar 4 2009, 07:04 AM | Noel Cookman |
And whether nature alone or God's creative act (or as I believe, some combination of the two) has made it so, 'tis a grand thing . . . that parents are almost universally so kindly disposed to their offspring. Nevertheless, your granddaughter is not lacking in beauty, no doubt a gift from your lovely wife - as was my earnest prayer about my own offspring. |
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| Post #7 Mar 5 2009, 03:56 AM | Perry |
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The creative act does seem to be attributed fairly to her mother and father. She gets her beauty from her mother and her willowy frame from her now gone father. Where her mother gets her beauty from could be as you ascribe. The ice is getting thin, up there, y'hear? I suspect the walking-on-water thing may not work for you. How the broking going? I have the notion that once the fruit picking and packing is over in my area, that there could be lots of concomitant economic grief. One of my tenants has recently been 'casualised.' Viz, his boss said "don't come unless I call you." I do hope we're not staring down the barrel of any winter of economic discombobulation. At least interest rates are low, for borrowers. For savers, it's a disaster. 3.7% is about the best they can get, presently. With real inflation around 10-12 percent, that's all bad for seniors and others reliant on interest dividends to pay the bills. |
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| Post #8 Mar 5 2009, 05:14 AM | Noel Cookman |
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You got it my friend. One of the problems of being the world leader (USA), you're responsible for bad as well as good many times. Your rates are a bit lower than ours, if you're talking about 30 yr fixed mortgage rates. Without paying for it, it's below or above 5%. I don't think our inflation is 10% yet. I'll have to check. Of course, when you go shopping for groceries, it seems that it's 100% on some items. Forgive me for not knowing the "macro" economics of it all - my head is usually so far into either marketing for my business or the intricacies of just getting a deal through, underwriting guidelines in such a confabulation - it's not in the the dictionary.  Just so others don't get bored with our congenial palaver, let me pose a question. What unique insight would an atheist bring to the economic siutation in America and the world? Specifically, what would be different about an atheist's perspective on economics from a believer's perspective - especially this current malaise? (I am also interested in a bit of the "blame game" as well even though we don't like to focus on blame but rather solutions). I see 3 responses from Christians particularly. #1 - "God is in control" (Calvinism or naivete, take your pick). A lot of people say they believe this. I think most do not when you get right down to it because they would have to say that everything that happens in God's will - and most of them (other than Calvinists/fatalists) do not believe this. It's also a depressing idea in my mind because it means that all events are inevitable. #2 - "We live in fallen world and we must accept all suffering as part of God's plan." I agree with some parts of this although it can be as fatalistic as outright fatalism. Tragedy and injustice are pretty much "unpreventable" if not inevitable. I suppose there are some fine distinctions between the two thoughts. #3 - Tragedy and Injustice are not totally preventable but are so to the extent that a tolerable and somewhat happy life is attainable if we are proper "stewards" of our resources. (You may recognize "stewardship" as a church or Bible word from your wife's church's pastor's semon series - I'm sure you review them often ). This has the advantage of "heavenly mindedness" while embracing an "earthly" sense of responsibility. It's a healthy interplay between the two, if you will. Back to the "blame game" - or hopefully, simply discovering the true causes of a malaise - some Christians in America may be conflicted as to the cause. On one hand, most Christians believe that greed is evil and may be a major part of the problem (vis a vis Wall Street greed); on the other hand, many Christians believe in conservative principles (allegedly based on Biblical principles to some degree) that achievement, industry and profit are noble. Many Christians tend to be uneasy with the "demonizing" of the achievers/rich - not because they are necessarily rich but because they don't see Robin Hood as a godly example of righteous values - one can never justify stealing from a richer person in order to give to a poorer person. Oh well, I thought I would mine for some insight from you and others as well. |
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| Post #9 Mar 5 2009, 06:32 PM | Bonzolee |
I hear that! |
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"The fact that audiences would rather go to Wonderland than face Iraq speaks volumes." – Random Youtube Poster | |
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| Post #10 Mar 9 2009, 01:48 AM | Perry |
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First up, Noel, have a peek here. You might find it interesting, regarding inflation and interest, etc. Feed for my hens has gone up 30% in less than 12 months, or close to 12 months. The official BS figures from the NZ government: about 5%. "Ground control to Major Tom - which planet are you on?" The rates I quoted were for deposits, even TDs. Yeah - I know what confabulation means - I often use it in relation to religion. Forget the macro/micro blatherings - that's econo-mist will o' the wisp stuff. Nothing for 99.9% plus of the thinkers or the believers. Most have no clues about even basic economics. I don't think pro- or anti-religion personal perspectives would make one iota of difference. I suspect that I know far more about economics than many do. I don't go ga-ga over numbers and theories. I use the Rolls Royce maxim: if in doubt go back to first principles. I've long-since embarked on an effort to explain - simply - economics, in another thread, hereabouts, so I'm not going to repeat it, here. The problem with economics, as I see it, is that all the soothsayers involved don't or can't grasp the KISS principle. Keep yer powder dry, Noel, and your head above water, while you're at it, OK? |
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| Post #11 Mar 9 2009, 01:51 AM | Perry |
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A PS, Noel. It's not possible to get mortgage rates from much better than 5 years, in New Zealand. If one asked for a 30 year rate, here, they'd fall all about the place in helpless mirth. |
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| Post #12 Mar 9 2009, 01:36 PM | Noel Cookman |
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You mean fixed for 5 years then adjusting - not 5 year amortization, right? Cheese! I don't think 5/1 ARMs or whatever are all that bad. I got a good one 6 years ago. It may come to bite me in the ass at some point. But, all things being equal, my $1,000,000,000 in investments should earn more interest if the mortgage rates climb. (I think I used a comma where I should have used a decimal . . . after the 2nd zero.) |
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| Post #13 Mar 9 2009, 01:46 PM | Noel Cookman |
I agree. The one thing I would point out is that while a good atheist usually thinks that because this life is all there is, they must make the best of it (can be a good principle to live by sometimes), a good Christian (not well behaved so much as a good, "thinking" Christian) simply approaches things differently in their basic understanding; Unlike the caricatured believer who has his head in the clouds and is "so heavenly minded he is no earthly good," a god-believer should approach things as a "steward" or "manager" (like stories that Jesus told - "the talents" etc). Our planet, the earth, the soil, the society, the economy, our very livelihood, our talents, etc are gifts from God and should be viewed as "on loan." We care for our world because it is our responsibility. It can be quite joyful as well. Incidentally, I believe that our accountability for our actions is IN THIS WORLD not in the afterlife. Further, I believe it is scriptural/biblical to think so (New Testament anyway). This is not commonly taught in churches. Most are taught that the acountability is in the afterlife or at least in the interim period between this life and the "next." But, then I digress into my beliefs. |
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| Post #14 Mar 10 2009, 01:57 AM | Perry |
ARM = adjustable rate mortgage? In NZ, it would be well-nigh impossible to fix a rate for a mortgage for 5-6 years. Longer is simply not an available option. Most have floating rates, which have been very arse-biting, especially as they climb. Right now, they've fallen and may go down a little more, yet. (6-7% is the average, March 2009) Investments? Don't like 'em. From close but not personal experience (acting as trustee), I've noted that fund managers always do well, even if the investor is losing value and paying tax for that privilege! I have one investment, real estate, over which I have almost total control. Paper value circa $NZ half a million. ROI about 7.8% gross. There are costs, but there are tax deductions, also. The 'control' bit is the critical part for me - the property manager and beneficiary. Right - not 5 year amortisation, BTW. |
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| Post #15 Mar 10 2009, 02:14 AM | Perry |
It seems we do have ever-more in common, as further exchanges reveal. Pauline theology made plain that sowing and reaping were unavoidable. Like you, I presume that to be a 'this-world-now' maxim. Vicarious atonement and deathbed confession syndrome never sat well with me - one of the reasons I abandoned religion or dogmas of any sort. "Stewardship" is a favourite word of mine, too. Along with 'husbandry.' I think I'm increasingly warming to you, Noel. (I hope that's not too scary). I go along with the "We care for our world because it is our responsibility. It can be quite joyful as well " bit, but part company with your views at the "gifts from Allah and should be viewed as 'on loan' " part. So I can and do go along with much of your 'beliefs' digression. That such is not "taught in churches" is no surprise to me. My perception is that modern-day churchianity is all about fostering some fairyland perception of avoiding natural consequences, which is why it's so popular. Human nature seems to subliminally delight in the idea of being on the bus but not having to pay the fare. |
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